Working Vs. Non-working Robots

[Sonny Young]

I'm kind of curious where you all stand on this subject, as I've "come to peace with myself," so to speak. Let me explain. Years ago, when I started collecting vintage toys and robots one of my requirements was that they had to work! It didn't matter whether I fixed them or they came that way, they had to function properly. Consequently, buying a new robot was always a mixture of pleasure and dread (if it didn't work). I would test them once or twice a year to keep them "loose." This could also be a dreaded experience. When one didn't start up, it would really bum me out. Open the tabs (again) or buy a new one? Boy, did I envy GI Joe collectors-- just buy the dam doll and pop it in your display case. Over the years, though, I came to realize that the robots are really like GI Joes and other non-battery collectibles: little time capsules, little pieces of (pop) art, whether they function or not. I'm not sure how I came around to thinking like this but I recall reading an article about Kitahara and he had no quams about buying broken, rusted, even incomplete toys. You can see this in the pictures in his books. He loved the toys so much that he considered each one special. I thought that was pretty cool. I still don't collect incomplete or rusty toy (I'm too vain), but I have changed my mind about toys that don't function anymore. In other words, if I pull a toy off a shelf and it doesn'tr crank up-- so what? I know it worked once before and could work again with a little tinkering. Why tear it apart over and over again? As long as I know the toy worked at one time and is not internally broken (ie, just gummed up) I'm satisfied to just admire it on the shelf. It's a comprimise that I came to which allows me to enjoy my collection so much more. It saves me a lot of anxiety and "repair" time, too. I'm curious if I'm a minority on this issue? Anyone else care to share their feelings on this? What do you do when one of your prized robots doesn't come to life after a few taps? Does it weigh on your mind, or are you content to know that their is nothing wrong with it, just hibernating? Let me know!

[tin lips]

Yes they have to run or there out the door,i just wish i could adapt to your way of thinking i am crazy! when it comes to collecting these toy robots i do not have a hundred on my wall with some sort of imperfection,just twenty or so that are mint! I had learned that lesson collecting toy trains,its a whole new ballgame this time around

[steve]

I'm in the form over function crowd. To be honest I donn't even know if some of my bots work or not - I haven't even tried to use them. For me the look is everything (ok-I less shallow when it comes to women-it's whats on the inside that counts)- these guys are like little pieces of art on my shelves.

[Sonny Young]

Thanks for the input. Tin Lips, let's take your situation a step further. Suppose in ten years your collection doubles in size to 40 mint robots, not an unreasonable assumption. Because there are so many, you can't crank them up as often as you would like. One day you find that two have stopped working, even after some taps (and raps). Now what? Open it? Replace it? I believe every robot collector faces this at one time or another. How often do you take apart a robot just because you want it to be functional?

[Morbius]

;) I've been going through that for almost 30 years now. I basically collected between 1976 and 1986. One reason I stopped was that some of the robots decided not to operate for periods of time. This would really get me put off in an incredible way; all that money, it doesn't work, what good is it now?

In the early days of collecting some so-called 'experts' were saying that if the toy didn't work, it was pretty much worthless. These were probably the same guys that took the broken ones from collectors (note: Worthless) and repaired and sold them.

Presently I've got a Star Strider which only recently stopped operating, lights but no action, and a Space Fighter which stopped operating after a month or so in 1984. By 1986, the dramatic price rise in the hobby combined with the frustrating fits of not operating I decided to go back to Aurora monster kits and cease collecting robots altogether. Like you say, the models are on the shelf like the GI Joe's, I CAN enjoy them and work on them without tearing them apart, and I no longer have to worry about operational issues. Lot less stress. The model kits seemed more like art.

Over the past 15 years or so, I've run them like you twice a year, now with my daughter through her 8 years. Last month we ran all the guys, with full operational success aside from the two mentioned above. Some, like Mr. Hustler always has to be tapped on the back a few times then he fires up fine. As for S.Strider, I now consider him as art. That's a pretty good track record, the 6 month bit seems to work well, but one day I'm sure some will seize up good!! I've then accepted them then as art.

ALPHA has some incredibly mechanically inclined people on board here (not myself), but JOHN, BART, HENK (and many others and I salute their confidence and ease and professionalism at which they will disassemble a robot, (or auto) repair him and get him back looking great. If you have a "Y" Space Explorer you'd have to accept him as art unless you are one of the above. I tore into a Roto Robot once (my first find) and bent him all out of shape but he only cost me 25c so no biggie.

I still enjoy my (1) slightly 'rusty' toy, my first old robot purchased before I knew better, (silver Sparky) with a little round spot of rust on his chest, but that little spot gives him much character as do the few marks where some kid obviously had fun actually PLAYING WITH HIM in the mid 1950's (this was the sole purpose of these toys...as 59c TOYS) and the fact that it came from someone in the Netherlands, he's travelled more than I have. Other than a couple of examples, all my stuff is pristine mint in mint boxes.

If they seize up and they don't start with a prod of a paint brush to their gears and some WD, I feel they are still an art form to me. Art that was made in small factories and sometimes assembled in the homes of individual contractors. If I get frustrated during the next run, I'll simply go build another modified stocker kit or monster.

To sum up..... "I'm a collector, Jim, not a mechanic"!!

[H.I. Gosses]

Since I am many of the "incredibly mechanically inclined people on board here I do not

worry about the functionality of my toys. All went on the shelf in working order and if they

do not work now, too bad, I am sure that I could fix them

However I think there is a division to make. There are toys that are nice because of their

function and there are those that look nice and function "en plus".

As my robots stand still 99,9% of the time I primarily go for the toys that look nice in repose.

As opposed to for ex. the large Horikawa TV robots; when these don't work, they look stupid

with this empty glazed over screen.

For visitors, of the un-initiated kind, I have a chrome repro Robby, Repro Smoking spaceman,

R. Thunder, a Chief Robot man (who's innards I have improved) and a "V8" Space Explorer*

and a Chrome Dome. If very nice visitor: X-70 is shown too.

(*See the thread with Bart about improving SE'S reliability)

By the time these are shown, the visitor had enough and wants coffee.

For the above reasons I would always base a design on a static robot.

There I am with Steve.

Any function, other than walking is a bonus.

[tin lips]

You know that is a very interesting after 40 or so' i never really thought on those terms but you are rite! This is why i enjoy alphadrome you guys are all great in knowledge it just makes me proud to be a part and enjoy true robot head conversations, i learn something everytime i go to the site.

[mike van]

I have a few Star Striders & other Hong Kongs that don't work, they have stripped gears, etc. I don't find it's worth the time to mess with them. I always check them out, a wire off is an easy fix. They just sit on a shelf. A rarer robot [barts Space Explorer for example] is worth the time, it's function makes it unique. More important to me is cleaning the sometimes 40 years of attic grime off, I like them to look good sitting there. I know you don't clean old coins, but robots with mouse crap don't display well. :o

[H.I. Gosses]

Concerning damaged toys:

Non working mechanism...............................................................................always repair.

Missing parts--- cannibalize other toys.........................................................yes

if no original part can be found or perfect replacement can be made...........leave alone.

Damaged black paint on big Robby...............................................................repair.

Rusty litho......................................................................................................leave alone.

Missing gun on robot-warboat.......................................................................leave alone!!!!!

In other words I only repair what can be repaired 100%.

Flat paint, mechanisms etc. Retouching a litho is a waste of time,

you end up with a handpainted robot.

The exeption is for ex. a doorless Door-robot. I would stick in a

fake door with a litho print just to keep out the draft.

Of course rarety modifies these dogma's

[steve]

Of course rarety modifies these dogma's - What exactly do you mean by this Henk- if it's super rare and damaged- especially a lithoed bot - do you attempt the repair. I believe that you have left your bazooka "R" robot alone.

[robert]

Great topic Sonny Young!

First off, let me say that I really enjoy working on robots and space toys. I love to purchase broken toys and fix them. If I own a toy, I have to know it inside and out. No, I don't take apart perfectly functioning robots just to see how they work, but if it is non-working, or only partially working, then let the games begin!

So, I have no problem with fixing them, but if at some point down the road one of my previously repaired robots or saucers stopped working...then, as Steve said, it becomes Static Art as far as I am concerned. Let's face it, you can only open these things so many times before you start breaking tabs or damaging something permantly. I am only a caretaker of these toys - eventually someone else will own them, so I want to leave them as pristine as possible. I will let the next owner repair them again, if they so desire. At least that way I know the toys will survive after me with no missing or broken tabs, crimped tin or scratched litho caused by repeated opening. I guess what I'm saying is: If I know they worked after I repaired them, that's good enough for me. If one stops working after that, I can live with it!

[bartzenegger]

i agree mostly with gosses.but- if there is some rust -- how much is the question. rust can be a good thing (to a point) it gives the toy such "vintage" character. i like vintage better than looking brand new.- also its easier buy from a price stand point!

i truly enjoy repairing toys so i would almost prefer a non working robot. the feeling of accomplishment is awsome when you see the toy finally working. :)

[Morbius]

:rolleyes: Henk: my humblest apologies. Regarding the above thread: it has been (a)mended!

Regards

MORBIUS

...and Bart, I agree with your view on the overall look of an old original piece. My recent rubber-hand Planet Robot although it has a couple of blemishes it shows wonderfully, the marks are nowhere near the front, and saved a bundle as well over a pristine shiny-as-new museum piece. Also, it does have an ever so slight patina on the nickel parts which gives it a beautiful vintage look unto itself. Also, it was probably a gift under some Christmas tree somewhere a long, long time ago, excitedly unwrapped by a youngster, played with a few times then left somewhere quiet and dark. Robert's point is well taken too as these toys will not be subject to many openings before they will be certain to look like junk.

[Morbius]

This guy shows wonderfully; even has a slight patina which I have no desire to polish out.

[robothunter]

This is a very hard call to make. In my heart of hearts, I would love for every robot to work perfectly. But I also agree with Steve that each one is a work of art and I can appreciate it for what it is even if it won't work properly.

I think the rarity of the robot is the real key factor. If one of my rarest robots suddenly stopped working I'm not sure that I would let any one open it up. Especially if it has never been touched or repaired. I would rather it was 100% intact and never fooled with than working. You wouldn't hand over a priceless 100% original Tiffany lamp that didn't work to be dismantled and rewired, would you?

But if I find a rare robot that needs work from the get-go like painting & re-wiring and I suspect somebody else has been inside it before, I have no problem having it restored and rebuilt.

And I have also had toys that wouldn't work when I gave them the yearly testing that have come back to life later on and I was really glad I hadn't sent them out to be opened! My Robby Steamroller which is so minty it practically glows wouldn't work last year when I tried to test it out.

I took it out the other day and it worked perfectly! So go figure :huh: