Paint Matching

[David Kirk]

I'm considering doing some paint work - an orange robot. I've painted some rooms orange and had the paint fade very quickly. Do you suppose that auto paint would be better than paint store paint? What is the highest of the high end in such things, and how do you match, if you'd like a particular shade? It never appears to me that my robots have been primed—the paint is often extremely thin. Is priming a step than can or should be omitted? Or does that mean the use of special paint?

[H.I. Gosses]

High end acrylic Artistpaint would probably be the most "unfading ".

You could seal it with solvent based varnish.(topcoat for metallic carpaint)

I have seen some tremendous orange...

Primer on tin ruins the effect of very thin (car-) laquer sprayed straight on the metal.

It smoothes out the contours and makes it look like it is made out of plastic.

Only if the tin is rusted and/or pitted would I consider spray-filler. Subsequently I would

sand it away as much as possible ending with 600 or 1200 waterproof.

If, however your final colour is light (or red), in that case, you must first spray the lot black.

Otherwise you will never get an even tone.

NB Acrylic is more treacherous than solvent based. It dries usually to a lighter shade than when wet.

I think most robots were sprayed with leftovers from the car industry. Or at least the same paint.

Mostly cellulose paints

[David Kirk]

Thanks, H.I., cellulose - is that laquer? I still can't get an email to you. It comes back every time!

[David Kirk]

And wouldn't that laquer paint be available at car shops?

[larry seven]

:) David, the old finishes may contain lead or other 'bad things', so wear a dust mask if you sand or work on them. If you must remove the old paint or litho on a robot, try a soaking of the individual parts in paint thinner. If it comes off, fine, if it doesn't even soften in the thinner, you may try a very soft wire wheel on a drill or roto-tool, holding the tin part very gently while wire brushing it. Don't let it get too hot while the wire wheel is polishing it, it may warp with heat. If you can get all of the old finish off clean and shiny, your new paint will look great over it.

One word of caution when using a very small wire wheel on a Dremel Roto tool, the little wires may come of during use and get in your skin, socks, t-shirt, eyes, shorts! They are pointy little things. Wear eye protection and do it in the work shop or garage, not in the kitchen!

Auto body shops don't use laquer any more, EPA regulations drove it out of town on a rail. We now use a more environmentally friendly base coat of color and then a urethane clear coat over it. However, I think laquer paint is still available in spray cans for home and garden and craft use. I sort of like to use enamels in spray cans on regular colored robots, and the automotive base coat/clear coat color system on wild colors. Good luck, -Larry 7

[robobob]

David,

I've never used primer, except like H.I. said, when I have

something really rusted or pitted....

I've used both Lacquer and Enamel with equal success.

For metallics I usually use lacquer - I just get a can of

Dupli-Color from the local auto parts store...They have

gotten quite used to seeing me coming in carrying

part of an old toy to match up to the paint...

For solids I usually just use Krylon enamels...I know

it's not high tech, but I've used paint pots, and I've used

spray cans, and when it comes to tin toys, I honestly

can't tell the difference...after all, it's a sparky, not a lexus :P

[Guest Brian]

I'm no expert on repairing or restoring robots (John's work and Henk's science leave me awestruck) but I have had the occasional go at it. Most of the time the result was distinctly amateurish but I did have a remarkable result using synthetic paint. I don't know what this is (since I thought all paint was synthetic - saving the woad that my countrymen wore to greet the Romans) but it was obtained from a car paint supplier and cost twice the price of the regular stuff. It didn't have the heady smell of automobile cellulose and I sprayed it onto bare metal.

The result was staggering: a beautiful flat, hard surface with high gloss and a thinness to the layer. This thinness was the key: it had no sign of the heavy effect that is a sign of primed metal or enthusiastic spraying.

I did spend hours cleaning the bare metal, that much I know is essential.

[dratomic]

Larry -- good point about the Dremel brushes. I found this out the hard way... Heh. I have a question, though... Can car paints be applied like standard paints (with a brush, or a home airbrush set up)? Or do you need to use some sort of specialty mechanism? Keep in mind, I know pretty much nothing about car paint -- only what I've seen on Monster Garage. But this seems to be your specialty, so...

What types of paints do you use on your mods?

[David Kirk]

That sounds swell Brian, if you can find anything else out about the paint that would give me a clue, let me know! I'm pretty sure that T Mike's head is how it came from the Griffith auction, despite the fact that it wasn't mentioned in the catalog. You can see a slight change in the head color in the photograph. I scanned it in and blew it up, and it was more obvious. I finally took him upstairs and sat him in his spot next to Chime Trooper last night. I suppose I'll wait a while before I do anything about his paint. I don't want to make a mistake. I suppose it's even possible that he came that way. I've got a few leads on good professional toy fixer uppers too.

[Dirk]

Larry, Dratomic & everbody else... DREMEL WARNING !!! I'm also no expert for painting or fixing, but sometimes I use a Dremel for cutting - brushing or something like this for the modell train. DREMEL is a nice little machine, but it is a high speed engine. The tools are very small - but be carefull. The minitools will break away often - especially the brushes loose their iron hairs after a short time. They will fly all around your head with 30.000 rotations per min. Keep away the children - protect your face -PLEASE,USE ALWAYS SAFETY GOGGLES!!!

[larry seven]

:) Dratomic, in auto body shops, we mostly use products designed especially for automotive repair and refinishing. At the moment our Buick, Pontiac, GMC dealer uses PPG's Global line, we have about 75 or so different basic ingredients, some of which are mixed together following a formula (recipe) for the color that has been worked up in some lab to match the paint that is on that particular car. It is then sprayed with a compressed air paint gun onto the car, several coats to cover as necessary, and then the panel(s) are coated with several coats of urethane clear that will dry very hard and resistant to chipping, fading, etc. The color coat alone will never dry, and it would soon fade to a white chalky substance without the UV protection of the clear. Your local body shop or auto supply stores may be able to show you some ways of using automotive paint systems, but the basics are that you would need an air compressor, Sears sells them, you would need a paint gun that is designed to spray these modern base coat-clear coat products, and you would need a place to spray it without the neighbors smelling it or cleaning it off of their windows with a razor blade. For robot refinishing, you can paint in the garage or your driveway without creating a very big cloud of fumes, so that's not really much of a problem in any suburban area. My nearest neighbor has a Chevelle race car, so I am in good company with my small paint jobs. However, my big antique John Deere tractor paint job several years ago made such a big cloud of paint that I had to clean overspray off of my new car that was parked about a hundred feet away. The wind blew it around the house. -Larry 7

[H.I. Gosses]

Again: for fiddly colour matching (restoring) acrylic artist paint has no match.

The system is meant to give predictable and constant results.

It dries in a flash, can be modufied from matt to highgloss

and it does not stink or poison you.

You can rinse out all the tools with water and it is very sweet on airbrushes.

However it is not strong and it does not look like the original. So after the whole lot is ready,

you coat this with Larry's poly-urethane clear coat.

This deepens the colour and, if you apply several coats,

you can buff this to a super smooth, highgloss.

Acrylic and PU do not mix, but they work together very well.

For "garage "-robots, I often go to the 'automotive repair and refinishing ' shop,

and buy a spraycan of a colour you would never have thought of to create yourself.

-Applied serendipity.

The, afore mentioned PU clear, is also applied afther these aerosols.

Mixing your paints yourself and applying them with an airbrush gives you great freedom and

a quick response.

Imagine you were to buy a new aerosol every time you wanted something a bit different..

[David Kirk]

I use wonderful oil colors - Old Holland, that I believe are made near you Henk, and I wonder if I could mix those up with a vehicle suitable for robot painting. I suppose mixing damar, or some other sort of varnish in would make them shiny. Is that an idea that might work? These are the highest quality oil colors and I trust them to be lightfast.

[H.I. Gosses]

I would think that oil colours would have too much structure and "Touche" (=brushstroke)

which is what they are supposed to have. Also they do dry very slowly.

(Here speaks Mr. Mussolini:)

"Stop resisting, David!, just go to a modelling/art supply -shop. Buy a range of Tamiya Acrylic's +

a modest airbrush. Then go to an car supp. (or Larry) and get some clear PU coat/varnish.

I promise, you are in bussiness."

I am sure there are other ways like making organic dye's out of Bhuddist's old socks,

but why not make it easy on yourself.

Old Holland is, I think, the US marketing of "Talens" Rembrandt, very superior-and costly, oil paint.

The TR Gouache is even better, but even more expensive and I fear

discontinued. If ever you come across it, buy the lot!