Robot Informaton Archive

[robert]

Hi all,

I've been thinking about this for awhile now and it is still in the conceptual stage but I would like to develope an online archive of robot information, complete with pictures. I am still looking into the best way to do this as it could get pretty massive and bandwidth is not cheap so nothing is finalized at this point.

The plan is to have a "Living Document". By that I mean that people who sign up to access it will also be able to add to it, both text and pictures, so that it continues to grow as a viable resource for collectors. I picture it kinda like a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy of Robots

A lot of the information is already available here on Alphadrome, the Timeline, for instance and the different groupings of manufacturers and their products. All very useful information, but too much cross-referencing is needed to pull in the full story on any given robot. I would like to see it laid out in a format that provides DETAILED information about each individual robot, maker, date of birth, lifespan, functions. pictures from several different angles, box photos, etc. Obviously, this would be difficult for one person to do, it would require the combined efforts, to a degree, of many of the experts on this board and elsewhere to make it happen. Like I said, it is still in the planning stages, but I can definately get the ball rolling. I would just like your feedback on this. Is anyone interested?

[dratomic]

I would definitely be interested. I think you've definitely got the right idea. One thing I'd suggest including with each robot entry would be a comprehensive tips and tricks section for that toy -- notes on repairing them, common problems, etc.

If you want something that's updatable by everyone, you'll probably want to set up a forum like Alphadrome. This isn't TOO expensive (I did it when I set up the now moribund Launch Pad site) and is easy to work with. We all know the benefits of the forum structure -- easy to post new info, easy to read stuff, no programming skills needed, etc.

The downside is that there's no central, searchable database (well, okay, there is, but not in the sense that you're talking about). It's hard to control content -- people can post ANYTHING.

I think what you're looking for is more of a reference book structure -- that means web pages. That means programming and access to the server -- that's not something you'd want to make public, even to members. Too easy to screw up the HTML, files, etc.

I can think of one immediate solution, though. Create a site like Alphadrome. Instead of having ROBOT TALK, TIPS AND TRICKS, ETC., you have each FORUM be for a singular robot. Within that Robot Forum are the various topics pertaining to that robot. You, as the admin, would not allow anyone else to set up TOPICS -- you'd set them up yourself, and tailor them to the information you're looking for. For instance, you'd set up topics of discussion pertaining to DESCRIPTION, VARIATIONS, TIPS, ACTION, BOXES, etc. People could then POST within these topics. The moderators could, every once in a while, go through and make sure the right info appears in the right place.

Obviously, this isn't the best option. But I think it's the one that allows the most control over the content, while still keeping things open to the community. Plus, IPB will set up the forum AND host it for you (which is what I did with Launch Pad). Perhaps Brian could add a link to it in the Alphadrome menu bar or something...

Whew. Those are just some initial, rambling thoughts. I think you've got a great idea, Robert.

[larry seven]

:) dratomic, are you saying that you have something called The Lauchpad? Cool! -Larry 7

[robert]

Great suggestons Doc! And you're right, the Tips and Tricks is a must. I have been thinking along the lines of a Quasi-Forum style also as I do have a website in process, but ultimately i think it needs to be in a PDF or some other downloadable format - so it will have to be stored on a server. Maybe a combination of the 2?? The Forum for providing and updating information that can then be added to the downloadable archive....

Food for thought! Thanks for the input Doc. I hope I can get some other people excited about this as well.

Keep it coming!!!

[Keith Palmer]

My VERY initial and "from the hip" thought/feedback on this. I think it would be cool if the timeline linked to the robot page and vice versa. And the robot page linked to video links and to an owner's list and to tip and tricks and auction records and page numbers in the various reference books and so on (tips and tricks as per above post). Everything integrated.

For example, John Rigg often posts and says "go check out such and such page at the robot hut". This is all good, but for me, my mind gets a little bit addled when I am working several different pages at one time. I would rather see a link in John's post that drove me straight to whatever he was talking about.

When I post a link, I have to sit down and think about "what does html enabled" mean, so often I post the same way. For example, if i want to bring attention to an ebay item, I usually just write the item number down as opposed to putting in a clickable link. I am sure this reduces the number of views. Unless I am really interested, it is doubtful that i will launch ebay and go thru all that just to see what somebody thinks i should look at. but if the link is there, odds are that i will look.

So Robert, I am not even sure if I am replying to your post correctly. But the robots page, timeline, reference, and all of that are mostly inactive buttons for me, unless i am specifically looking for the information.

but i tell you what, i think if long-time alphadrome members were TRULY honest, we would admit that we talk about the same stuff over and over, just with varying periods of time in between. if the architecture were slightly different, all the posts could "push up" to the particular areas to which they refer and become a more accessible archive.

But I think what I am thinking of is a pretty sophisticated thing -- relational database or some crazy stuff of which i know nothing.

maybe next botstock, members could buy brian a plane ticket and everyone could all agree on direction for alphadrome and its relationship to other sites.

robert, please note that my post is mostly speaking of this site (alphadrome), mostly because this is what i am familiar with. if you are talking of launching a new site, i am NOT trying to discourage this effort. i do think that if anything is getting ready to grow out of alphadrome, it will have done just that: grown out of alphadrome. what would be the emotional impact of that to the brian? ::trying to put myself in his shoes::

on the other hand, if we need more, we need more. i can't do it. all i can contribute are photos and stories and little videos and my right-wing opinions (and with your able and enthusiastic help, getting robots to their rightful owners).

my vision would be an elected board, elected by alphadrome members. the board would serve joe's toy robot museum, and it would serve alphadrome. responsibilities could include ethics, public relations, membership, website development, and so forth. i think i am saying this because everyone pretty much thinks in the same direction, but brian can't do it alone and joe can't do it alone. i mean look at joe, he runs his museum, yet he is seemingly 24/7 on this site, too. this alphadrome thing works only because of the community, and no man (or duxastrogirl) is an island anyway.

ON A SERIOUS NOTE... if things stay how they are today, what happens if Brian dies in a car accident next week? or Joe gets really, really sick? maybe i am getting too serious here, hm.

i do think if THIS site stays in its present format, sooner or later, something WILL come along and eclipse it. i would like to see this site transform and expand and grow. the information and community are already in place.

in the meantime, what about marrying video links to each robot on the robots page? and on the same robot page, something like "image courtesy joe blow collection" or something like that. newer collectors appreciate the opportunity to contribute or at least be recognized, don't we all agree?

robert, just a heads up again, if i am missing the point of your post, forgive me.

[Volker]

Sorry - maybe I missunderstand something wrong-

But we have this place - here.

The Timeline grows with the Years - with the great Help of Joe. K

The most information comes of him. ( this is a NOBELPRICE worth )

This Timeline is the only one.

The next step is to add a table for the Pictures

I know this is a full time Job-

maybe we can Help Brian - but how ???

But an other place as the Alphadrome ?

I don,t know

Volker

[dratomic]

Volker -- I don't think Robert sees this idea as ANOTHER Alphadrome. More as a supplement to Alphadrome. A downloadable reference that has all the information of Alphadrome in one, easy-to-read package. The ultimate, ever-expanding, ever-updatable Robot Book.

(I think that I confused matters by suggesting using a Forum format for this. But perhaps using a Forum structure isn't the best means to Robert's end. Ignore my initial idea...)

A downloadable PDF file would be cool -- perhaps, Robert, it would be updated every three months (or whatever), giving the person running it time to do the work. So it'd almost be like a magazine, only deliverable in digital form.

To tell you the truth, if that's how you're looking at it, a web site might not be so complicated. It could be a simple design, updated periodically by one person (but based on all the suggestions/input/etc of collectors and the members of Alphadrome, as opposed to one author). Everything could be cross linked with an index running along the side in a separate frame or something for easy navigation and searches.

Imagine, if you will, a MUCH better version of my web site -- one full of all the stuff you've suggested (and none of the factual and typographical errors that run through mine! Heh...).

Easier than a dynamic database -- which, Keith, would be awesome -- and not likely to step on Alphadrome's toes. After all, Robert's suggestion is more like an ARCHIVE of information, whereas Alphadrome is an active DISCUSSION of information. The two, ideally, would work together.

Robert, I think you're really onto something. This is definitely worth brainstorming... Brian, do you have any thoughts on the subject? Is there any way to perhaps integrate this within the Alphadrome structure, a way to make it one big Robot site with all these elements? Perhaps the framework is already in place and only needs a little tweaking...

[Joe K.]

what happens if Brian dies in a car accident next week? or Joe gets really, really sick?

Actually Keith, you've got it backwards.

Brian's the one with an eye patch and yesterday morning my dear ol' '92 Toyota Corolla was rear-ended by an '87 Ford Pick-up. All sheet metal damage. The bumper was untouched! I now have a real nifty trunk lid "spoiler". No one was injured but I will be in the market for a new used car.

And, with no wheels for awhile, I'll be able to ALPHADROME-it 25/8!

I tend to agree with Volker. I would like to see the TIMELINE format embellished to include all the "bells & whistles" that have already been mentioned, including "thumbnail" photos to help aid in our "quest".

And isn't there a way to be able to set it up so that the info could be searched by date, by manufacturer, by robot name?

[robert]

After all, Robert's suggestion is more like an ARCHIVE of information, whereas Alphadrome is an active DISCUSSION of information. The two, ideally, would work together.

I couldn't have put it any more succinctly my self Doc.

I have no desire to REPLACE or compete with Alphadrome.

What I want to do is take all of the knowledge, the information and images, that wealth of experience and catalogue it in an easily accessable format.

Let's say for instance you are looking at some ebay auction and see a robot that you are unfamiliar with. Instead of searching the web, following various failed links, meager references, misinformation, etc. you come to this archive. You type in whatever information you have: a name - it gives you a list of robots with that name. Or a maker: you can peruse all robots in the archive identified with that maker. When you find your robot you can see all of the information known about it: name, when it was made, how long it was in production - maybe a small video of it in action, at least there will be photos from different angles-front, back, etc + picture of the original box. From there you could reference variations, maybe even information on reproductions past and present, as in the case of the Yonezawa Smoking Robot - which can be very confusing without knowing the proper timeline.

I am talking about an informational database exclusively for robots (and eventually Space Toys as well)

But, this would definately have to be a group effort. Everyone has their area of expertise and hopefully those people would be willing to contribute their knowledge (and photos of their collections) to the cause.

SO, it's out there. I will do whatever I can to advance this and hopefully you guys will join in.

[Volker]

Ok,

I think I understand what you mean.

But when you will make it right we must have a club or associations .

with a buget that always make sure that all is running.

I mean early or later we must do something in this Way.

Volker

[(id)]

Great idea Robert, the things I would add briefly are this:

- Why would you move it away from Alphadrome? It's already a centralized place for robots

- I would keep it as an HTML page that is alive and can evolve, a PDF is restricted in that it has to be updated and uploaded/downloaded. It also brings in another aspect with software (acrobat) having to load, it's not a biggie, but I think it's additional steps that are extrenuous. Essentially we are talking about a more sophisticated model of what we already have here on alphadrome, aren't we? Also keeping them as HTML pages means we aren't talking about a big increase in size (for hosting abd costs).

- As a way of focussing the information collecting, could we have a poll on which robots we'd like to source information about first and then have a window of, say, 2 weeks, where we focus on gathering as much info on that robot as possible (the rest could be underway at the same time, this could just be a good way of getting detail in specific areas). Members could at this point submit original pictures for inclusion, if they chose (I have some piccies of my old topolino that I'd love to show off).

- With a few graphic designers in our midst (myself included), could we devise a new attractive interface for these pages in a way that displays the info clearly and accessibly. This way we could also print off the pages so they would look good, superceding PDF.

- We could start a discussion as to what info we actually include, someone would need to moderate this.

My mind is buzzing with the excitement of this, when do we start!!!!!!

[robert]

Some excellent points (id).

I mentioned PDF as an example. It's a great format for displaying the information, easily downloadable and widely available. Adobe readers are available on the web, you don't need full-blown Adobe, only the reader. But it is certainly not the only option available.

I also believe that this should be a separate entity, linked to Alphadrome for sure, but not part of it. Alphadrome is a forum for collectors to get together and exchange ideas and information. The Robot Archive will be a warehouse for that information. Besides, making it a part of Alphadrome also make Brian ultimately responsible for managing and maintaining it, as he is the webmaster of this site. I am sure that Brian has enough to do just maintaining Alphadrome without being "volunteered" for this as well.

Ultimately, this should document all known robots and robot makers. The whole idea behind this is to create a resource for robot collectors to refer to and rely on, so the bottom line is that it should also be "collector friendly" when accessing it. So we need to decide on catagories and format as well as information.

Keep the ideas coming.

[Keith Palmer]

I feel like I have to say something here. I have been to various robot sites over the years, but I have never visited one where the members are so serious and passionate at the same time. This thing is alive, and there are real men and women out there pushing it forward every single day.

With no disrespect to any other site, this is the one where passion precedes individual and commerce. This is the site with the TRUTH -- and where every man (and duxastrogirl) is king (or queen).

It is very cool that there is nothing for sale on this site. But I do believe I am ready for the 2004 limited edition tee shirts, just in time for the holidays.

Very humbly yours,

KP

[Fineas J. Whoopie]

I am liking this idea.

How about two different ways to access a particular robot's file, one would be simply typing in the robot's name and the other would be to browse a photo gallery and click on the desired robot's image. This way all you would need to know is what the robot looks like to find out all about it. I think this would serve the novice well.

[Robotnut]

If this thing comes together, I may be able help with

the webspace. One of my daytime duties is technical

supervisor of an ISP and we are in the proccess of

installing a HUGE web server. I'm currently hosting

John Rigg's Robothut and my Robotnut site at no charge.

The only condition my company puts on the free space

is that no goods or services are sold on my site. My

site currently has about 1200 subpages and about

200 Megs of space. John's has about 100 pages and

about 100 Megs. Someone else would have to do the

web design as my skills are old school. All my pages

are built live on the server using VI. While crude and

effective, VI doesn't allow itself to frames, PHP or PDFs...