SH MIKE Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Is there a better picture of the second tag ? THE MUSEUM BOUGHT THEM IN THE 1970's ? ? ? ? ? That opens a big can of worms. Where was HENK in the 1970's....... Was he displaying his robot collection at the age of 13 just like Kitahara did years later ? Lets find a hand writing expert. Any one have a sampe of HENK's Writing ? We can now successfully date Lilliput to the 1970's. That can be written in stone. That photo of Lilliput De Milo looks like it's the first version with the removable dial ? It looks like Strauss on the tag ? Why were German Toy Companies getting early samples of Japanese Robots ? Did they make the motors for the Japanese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blechroboter Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 THE MUSEUM BOUGHT THEM IN THE 1970's ? ? ? ? ? That lets in lots of worms. Where was HENK in the 1970's....... Was he displaying his robot collection at the age of 13 just like Kitahara did years later ? ... The b&w photo of Henk as a young boy with all the robots on the shelves was one of Henks jokes. Nice Photoshop work! :lol: :excl: The robots on the background were taken by Henk from a picture of the Kitahara collection. As far as I remember Chris once wrote that Henk started robot collecting in late 1970s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 MIKE - the robot does not came to the museum in 1937!!! The LILLIPUT robots had been part of a stock of a german toy company!! (already pre WWII) (... and I guess there was no museum in 1937, that displays brand new toys from 1937..) Why does a german toy company had japanese robots in their stock?? Because companies are always interrested what other (competitional) companies are doing!! Why does this german company not survive? Because the japanese companies have cheaper toys ( ... and much more interresting robots & spacetoys - OF COURSE!) ;) What does happen with the old stock of that company?? It was sold - sold out in the 70s ... and a big part of those toys ( togehter with the Lilliputs ) came to the Nuremberg Toy Museum! Here are some more pictures of the actual sample ..... Please tell me what is the point with Mr. Lazlo Biro' and his "Kugelschreiber?" This is another great story - we had a fabolous TV movie about this here in Germany... but that all has really nothing to do with the age of Robot Lilliput. And I guess this tag was not written with a falt pen or with a biro - it was simply written with ink and a Federhalter = fountain pen. Nearly everything was written with fountain pens in those days... but it really does not matter. Even if the tag was printed with an epson stylus - I will believe 1937 is 1937... explain it later on... Do you think Lilliput is younger / older as 1937 ?? ... maybe older .....YES! But do we have another proof for that? .....Not YET! MIKE - I don't get your point....The tags only tell us - that Robot Lilliput came to the company's store stock in 1937 - or they marked it 1937 -or the assistent in the museum marked it later - thats all. Maybe the black ink is on the tag since 1937 - maybe it was added or renewed later in the museum. The same thing happened with my Dactylioceras. The tag reads: Dactylioceras - Oberer Lias - 175 Million Years old - and it faded over the years... But I was able to renew it, because I was able to read and to write. The tag reads again: 175 Million years old and I write it with a Biro'! Your conclusion would be now, that this Dactylioceras could be only 80 years old, because Biro' found his pen only 80 years ago?? And what I will not believe is, that anybody in a officinal museum in Germany will place a wrong date on something! This is a NO GO in a (german) museum - and I guess in every museum worldwide. People who are working there have a profession for their job, at least they are able to read and to write... If a person - doctor, professor or only assistent - would have painted a wrong date on this Lilliput, he had simply failed his job! As long, as we have no other artifacts, there is simply no reason, why we should believe, that the only artifact that we have should be wrong! And gentlemen - this artifact was not found on a junk yard - in a school for dumb and blind - and thanks for god not in Henks falsification studio.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blechroboter Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 ... Mons. Birou and his "Kugelschreiber?" This is another great story - we had a fabolous TV movie about this here in Germany... A fabolous TV movie about that? Never noticed. What do you mean, Dirk? Kugelschreiber see here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelschreiber#Geschichte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blechroboter Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Did they make the motors for the Japanese. No. There were no business relationships between japanese and german toy makers until 1980s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hi Don BLECH - yes I guess MIKE is right with Lazlo Biro'... There are some others working on the same idea ... But Lazlo Biro' make it really work and get the patent. He was living in Hungaria? - so he was never able to make big money with it.... others did very well!! He ended in Argentinia, when I remember correctly.... There are a great TV serie - PATENTE & TALENTE ... maybe seen at least at TV 1+. "Patente & Talente" Der Kugelschreiber des Herrn Biró (2005) http://de.wikipedia...._B%C3%ADr%C3%B3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticaugie Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Here we go again. It's hilarious to see two flyeyes in a heated debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blechroboter Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It's hilarious to see two flyeyes in a heated debate. Right, but be careful when eyes light up in red :D @ Dirk: Don´t know Patente & Talente. Also can´t see 1+. <_< Will watch out for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Its a little pity, that we don't have a section, where we can store only the "MEAT" the real important facts or reports. It takes so much time and money to make these investigations ... and after some weeks everything is fading away - gone like a needle in the hay between the normal daily robot blabla. And after some years, it seems to be forgotten and we start again from point zero... I guess we had so many discussions about Robot Lilliput the variations and datings - and where now is the essence of it all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian.. Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Its a little pity, that we don't have a section, where we can store only the "MEAT" the real important facts or reports. It takes so much time and money to make these investigations ... and after some weeks everything is fading away - gone like a needle in the hay between the normal daily robot blabla. And after some years, it seems to be forgotten and we start again from point zero... I guess we had so many discussions about Robot Lilliput the variations and datings - and where now is the essence of it all? I couldn't agree more, Dirk. A forum is a great way to discuss things but it's a lousy way to store them. Great topic need to be turned into permanent articles. I will do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Maybe it would be the best to write a little "extract" out of the wisdom we had won so far... for example... Robot Lilliput, The Smoking Robot Spaceman variations, and of course Gernots journey to Metal House... Somewhere can be a link to the original stories or discussions - but the extract should be not too long... I know that many of those facts are only based on - maybe interviews ...and maybe some of these must be relativated later. I would expect also, that new information will come up over the years and must be added... That is in fact the thing with my Roboter700 story right in this moment... where to place this now? ... and how to add it to the whole story... and how to store it to the new extract? And I guess only the important facts or stories should qualify for our "Encyclopedia Robotica". In a way, that it should be easy for everybody to find the most important facts, dates and pictures Maybe anybody else has a good idea - how to store this in an easy but effective way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blechroboter Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The last 24 h I gave some thoughts to Dirks suggestion. It seems to me that it is the best idea we can do so far. But if we do so, we will come to the point where it becomes complicated and confusing by all the additions, appendices and links to other related posts and threads. Another point is the difficulty to corrigate wrong conclusions in earlier post. That leads to the curious situation that you´ll read first the wrong fact, only to find the correction on a later post. It comes to my mind that it is perhaps better to do it in a Wiki. It makes sure, that all posts are well arranged in all ways. That´s the same way Wikipedia works. They use the free MediaWiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki . Should be no Problem for Brian ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian.. Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 A wiki is easy enough to install but it's very difficult to configure. There's also a steep learning curve. I have installed one, and am playing around with it, but at the moment I'm bewildered by the range of features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticaugie Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Before we had the database, I had suggested an interactive database, based on what bmxmuseum.com runs. All of this could be accessed in a thread on Lilliput or Atomic Robot Man. At the very least we could post related links found in robottalk. I had talked with Gary who created BMXmuseum.com and he said he would help out, and that he also was interested in toy robots, but that was years ago. The drawback to the BMX site's system is that it allows for users to post any bike, (that the mods accept)so you end up with about 100 examples of the same bike. If you search 1984 Mongoose Californian, you will find 101 bikes currently, and while this may seem unwieldy at first, you can spot many different variations. The rules on that site are very loose though, they allow users to post bikes that could have most of the parts come from different bikes, the frame serial number is what is most important to them. I propose we run a similar system but only open new listings to verified variations in the robot and differences found in the runs over time. This is a lot to ask of Brian though, most sites that are this large have a staff of moderators to help weed through duplicate posts and wasted space, spam etc. The new system would be a combination of the database and timeline. I think this would be better than a wiki, it would be more like an evolving forum where you can follow the hashing out of pertinent details over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian.. Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Let's keep is simple, folks. We want to give easy access to existing information so let's try the moving-and-editing trick first. If it doesn't work then we can look at somethin else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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