duxastrogirl Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Now I have a question for the electricity experts -that it is sort of related- .(sorry to deviate the thread a little) but is something that I am not sure.... Is it the same to put a two D cell remote into a toy that had a two C cell?? I mean the voltage is the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike van Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Voltage is the same DA Girl, the 2 D cells should last longer. Same w/ C cells outlasting AA's. As long as they are wired the same, so you don't get 3 volts instead or the 1.5 you are after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robotnut Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Dux, technically C's and D's have the same voltage, but not really ??? Voltage of a circuit has to be measured under load.Load is the rated current output of the battery or powersupply. A voltmeter by its design, applies virtually no loadto a circuit. This is why those Alkalines can read 2 or morevolts unloaded. If you were to apply the rated load tothem, they would read approx 1.5 volts. AA's, C's and D'sare all 1.5 volts with the appropriate load. Items designedto run on C's can be damaged by D's because these weredesigned to apply enough load to the battery to bring itdown to 1.5 volts. This lowering of the voltage is due tothe internal resistance of the battery. Carbon batteries havea higher internal resistance than Alkalines. The lower theinternal resistance of the battery, the more current it cansupply. The problem is that vintage toys were designed to run onvintage batteries. Today's batteries are designed to runtoday's devices that require higher current. Today's highoutput AA's actually have the same current rating asD-cells from the 1960's. This is why Rocket USA's R1 andMetal House's new Piston Robot have no problem runningon AA's. If you use modern batteries in a vintage toys, you do riskburning out lights or smoking devices, because they usea delicate filament. Motors don't usually have a problem witha little more voltage. They will just spin a bit faster, convertingthe electrical energy into kinetic energy. Filaments can onlyproduce more heat and more heat is bad...Sorry about the long winded explanation, but you asked... B)P.S. Most toys are wired in series, so they actually run on 3 volts.If your batteries are putting out 2.2 volts each, then in realityyour R-35 eyes are being hit with 4.4 volts, OUCH !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dratomic Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Thanks for the break down, Robotnut. I think I'll continue draining batteries in my other, modern toys before throwing them into my vintage pieces. Just to be on the safe side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike van Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Robotnut, I've never seen a load - amperage chart for dry cells. It's not load or amperage that burns out bulbs, it is voltage. The same 1.5 Volt dry cell that powers a motor or electromagnet can also power a light bulb, the problem I see is with the voltage, not with the load. The smaller the load, the longer it will run. Houses near substations can see voltage of 125 125 250 - near the end of the line, it can be 110 110 220. Your typical light bulb is for 120 volt, at the higher voltage, people go through bulbs weekly, until they start buying 130 volt rated bulbs. It has nothing to go with amperage, you can have a 10 kva transformer feeding this house or a 50 kva, a house with a 60 amp service or 400. If you have high voltage, you are going to be buying light bulbs by the case. I will stick to my statement, that if all 1.5 volt batteries put out 1.5 volts, that the size doesn't matter. The larger ones will last longer in the same application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robotnut Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Mike you are correct that 1.5 volts is 1.5 volts, but asyou said most modern batteries have more than 1.5 volts.Put batteries in a toy and measure the voltage with itswitched off and on. I just tried this with a Hong KongSaturn Robot. Carbon D-cells, 3 volts off and 2.1 volts on.Alkaline D-cells, 4.4 volts off and 3.6 volts on.The 1.5 volts difference is like adding a third battery !Most vintage toys will ususally load two carbon batteriesdown to 2-2.5 volts. 2.5 volts is what is stamped ontothe base rim of most of the lights in these toys. Thesetoys were designed to drop the battery voltage to 2.5volts for the bulbs. Another thing to never do is to usean AC adapter to test an old toy. I've measured 3 voltadapters at 11 volts unloaded ! These adapters aredesigned to only deliver the rated voltage when fullyloaded to the maximum current listed on the label.My first "real job" after college was with GE's electricalsupply division where I discovered battery load charts.It's amazing how much engineering goes into thesimple devices we use. Larger batteries are used toprovide the required current for a device not toneccessarily to make it run longer. More load, meansbigger batteries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike van Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Got ya, Robotnut, thats pretty much what I said, that 4.4 volts from the alkalines is whats going to pop the bulb, I didn't have any carbons to measure, but I was guessing they would be 1.5 and you have cofirmed this, thanks. I still believe that size doesn't matter, as long as the voltage is correct. You can run your house off a Coleman generator, or get power from a nuke plant, the capacity of power available won't change the fact that high voltage will burn up light bulbs and electronics, and low voltage will do the same to motors. If your getting 120 - 240, it matters not where it's coming from. Same will apply to dc toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry seven Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 :) Automobile 12 volt batteries mostly test unloaded at 13.5 or 14 volts unless they are on their last breath. -L7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.I. Gosses Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Avoid all problem by using Niccads. They are 1.2 volt each. (You also avoid the problem of buying new batteries.)"Btw. you can run your bulbs on 50 kV if you limit the Amperage. "muttered Mr. Ohm in his grave & turned over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9tobor9 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 ;) This is a great school, which comes to the point with all our newbies. What troubles me is how to get beyond D when your learn alphabet through batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.