Pyrotomic Disintegrator Ray Gun - The "Attic Find"

[Pyrotomic1]

2 minutes ago, Andyman said:

You talk like a speculator. You are not going to juice this hobby with a $25,000 askng price. Go back to baseball cards.

With such limited communicative abilities, isn't it startling that I can talk like anyone at all?!? What a testimony to determination!

I talk sense and cents. I'll pay $2800 for every one like mine that owners of them are willing to sell. Anyone?

We've established that the gun is not rare and it's worth no more than $2000. So why can't I buy one from anyone for $2800? I've been trying for 6 months. Hakes and all the rest? At any price. I've offered far more than $2800. You think they won't sell me one at any price because they're not interested in money? That's so noble of them to refuse generous offers if they can find one and not give in for the sake of dirty cash.

[Pyrotomic1]

21 minutes ago, Andyman said:

You talk like a speculator. You are not going to juice this hobby with a $25,000 askng price. Go back to baseball cards.

Holy Mackerel, Andy, you still haven't pointed out all the readily available Mint Pyro blasters in copper and silver in the marketplace today. For the argument of "it's only worth.......", and "it's not that rare", and "such and such has 5 of them on Mint condition", someone would have to point one out for sale in today's market. Or that has been sold, with an internet record of it, and say, "look... toytent has one for $2000" or "here's one you can buy for $10,000".

But that can't happen, can it? Because aside from mine, there are zero point zero available in the marketplace or that have sold besides the busted one without the firing pin.

[Fineas J. Whoopie]

You have misrepresented the posts of this thread again and again. This is a real pet peeve of mine. I believe lies posted on the internet are destroying the fabric of our society and it really pisses me off. But one thing you said is true. My irritated sarcasm was insulting. I do sincerely apologize for that. No sarcasm this time

 

All this explaining of how you believe every collector should perceive value and act according to your expectations is a waste of time because there is one certain way to determine the actual market value of your gun. Put it up for auction or at least take offers. Then there will be no need for debate or efforts to "prove your point". If you want to sell it, sell it. But you are not going to create a new perception of the value of the piece by arguing here.

[Rocket]

I have a policy of not engaging whack-a-doodle, it gets everybody nowhere fast - that said I feel compelled to say here to Pyrotomic1 - please read my post again carefully. Nowhere did I say I have 5 Pyro pistols for sale, nor did I offer the one in my collection for sale, I merely relayed my personal experiences as a dealer over my 30+ year career in hopes of answering your questions.  

You have a scarce and desirable ray gun, I hope you sell it for your price... as Fineas said, nobody who has one will be mad if you get that money for it. 

To me, and I think to several others here, it seems disingenuous to come on this board initially with this find and the story evolving into your becoming a collector now of ray guns and space toys; selling the story deeper over 6 months posting that you even found the matching rifle...  only now to see it for sale on eBay. Brian is right, we feel had... you put forth a narrative that you're going to keep the gun and start collecting only to put it up for sale at an unprecedented price. And you used this thread as a sales tool that you referenced on the eBay page, it's hard not to feel used, or had. 

OK, I officially disengage, and I urge others here to as well, you can't reason with the unreasonable, it's a waste of time. As Fineas said, over and out. Have fun and play with your toys, that's what it's all about. 

Peace out.

Rocket -[O_O]-

 

[Pyrotomic1]

We have a working example right here. Rocket set his price at $2800. I want to buy it. Rocket has been silent since I stated that. Again, this points to only two possibilities:

1. Rocket doesn't have one just like mine for sale for $2800.

2. Rocket has one but he will not let it go for $2800.

Rocket set the value at $1600 to $2000. He sold 5 mint ones like mine for that range. Logic would dictate that if he had 5 mint ones, chances are there are at least 100 more and if not mint, than close to it. And if that's the case, Rocket has shown a willingness to make money in this hobby, a huge faux pas in Andyman's opinion.

Now, if Rocket is a seller, and with 5 mint ones sold under his belt, I have every reason to believe that's the case, unless he's finally seen the light and adopted Andy's tenet that money is evil and no profit should be made, he should be more than willing to sell me that mint one he referred to for the $2800 he spoke of.

Why wouldn't he? He can go out and replace it for $2000 or less quite handily.

That would be the barometer of truth for the proof of value. Rocket said he sold 5 mint ones for $1600 to $2000 and if he were to sell his mint one now, the price is $2800. Is it, or isn't it? Can I buy it for the $2800 he quoted? Can I buy any one like mine, right here and now, on the net, as we speak, for $25,000 or less, aside from the one I already own?

[Pyrotomic1]

Rocket, 30 years ago, there were cars that sold for $10,000 that are now 6 figures. Times change.

[Pyrotomic1]

 

Here is the text from the listing. If you will, please point out the disingenuous parts and outright lies to me if you are able to so I can amend them for accuracy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Fully operational. Found with other toys and Topps Cards from 1953 to 1955 in a sealed box in the full attic of my 140 year old family home in December of 2018, the incredible find of this immaculate grail chronicled on the Alphadrome forum, a thread entitled, Pyrotomic Disintegrator Ray Gun, by me, Pyrotomic1 on that forum.

 

The Pyrotomic Disintegrator is extremely rare and a highly sought after vintage space ray gun at the top of most collector's wish list. Being very fragile and susceptible to damage, stimates among experts range from 10 to 15 known, with few, if any, in this pristine condition. It doesn't look like it was played with. It came out of the large, sealed cardboard box, looking brand new. Gleaming. Perfect seams. Beautifully manufactured without glitches. 

 

*Very important:  It has not been repaired, restored, fixed, or altered with glue, paint, or anyway or thing else. It hasn't even been cleaned. Not even a dusting, the condition you see pictured is the same as the day sealed in the box 60+ years ago and the same condition as this last December when I unsealed the large box of toys and carefully removed the ray gun from it. The box sat untouched in the same spot in the same attic since at least 1955. The box had a think layer of dust on its sides but the contents were perfectly preserved in immaculate state.

 

The trigger and receiver work perfectly, I just test "fired" (pulled the trigger 2 or 3 times). Everything is tight. Nothing loose, rattling, separating, or cracked, this looks like a brand new toy.  

 

Any doubts? Have an expert look at the pictures and they will tell you this is the real grail. I featured it in a thread on Alphadrome, THE leading forum for space toys, and experts (long time collectors) abound there on that forum, many with their their own websites and books written on the subject. They loved the piece. Best of the best as one expert put it. 

 

The pictures depict the ray gun to the best of my ability. I'm told it's the find of a lifetime when it comes to rayguns. THE ray gun in THE condition. We'll see, because the price is stiff. The last complete Pyrotomic Disintegrator in fully working, high grade condition was a candy red/blue/yellow one, that was about 4 years ago, and it auctioned for about $6800. The last complete one prior to that was also a candy red/blue/yellow version, that I was able to locate auctioned, and was sold by Hake's in 2007 for $1850. 

 

The pictures of the attic are the location where the large box of toys remained undisturbed since 1955! 

 

None of the few copper and silver ones I've seen pictures of look quite like this one, it may very well be unique as far as known pieces as defect free and as perfectly manufactured as this one. 

 

I'll ship domestically and internationally by USPS, registered priority mail, fully insured, free shipping. Local pickup is also a buyer option and welcomed.

 

Sales tax is automatically collected by ebay for 10 states and DC now, so if you're one of them, please check and be aware of it before buying or offering. 

 

Collectors wait years, sometimes a decade or more, just for one to show up for sale in any condition. The condition of this find of a lifetime makes it THE grail of toy space ray guns. The #1 space ray gun toy in the #1 desired color, in the ultimate condition.  Zappppp!!!. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Andyman]

You constantly compare apples to oranges. I never said money was evil. You completely miss my point. I'm out. Good luck with your sale.

[Pyrotomic1]

5 hours ago, Andyman said:

You constantly compare apples to oranges. I never said money was evil. You completely miss my point. I'm out. Good luck with your sale.

It's not apples to oranges, it's the supply and demand of apples to oranges. Here's how that works:

Say I own 100 apples and no oranges, and although I love apples, I'd sure like to have an orange because it's been way too long of a dry spell without one.

So next time I'm at the grocer I walk past the apples to the orange bin and it's empty!! The sign is still there, 5 for $2.00, but there aren't any oranges. I ask the grocer, "No oranges?" He says, "I sold out yesterday, I had 5 bushels of them, I'll have another 5 bushels tomorrow".

I go back tomorrow, plenty of apples, no oranges. Same sign, 5 for $2.00, but none to buy. Same story when I ask. This goes on for 6 months. I'm  loyal customer but I want an orange, so I go to the grocer up the block and when I get to the oranges, he's selling them 6 for $2.00, but the bin is empty. Huh!! Is this a conspiracy? lol

I walk further up the block to another grocer and like the two others, sale signs for oranges, but like the banana song, "Yes, we have no oranges. We have everything else", and he rattles off the list, like the song.

I'm vexed. I'm determined to have an orange, so I google "grocery stores near me", and start calling from the top down. Every grocer on the first page of hits tells me the same thing, "They're 5 or 6 for $2.00, and they had bushels of them yesterday, but now they're out, try again tomorrow.

I go to results page 2 and continue the search, in fact, I go citywide, then statewide, and get the same story, "5 or 6 for $2.00, we had bushels yesterday but we're out today, try tomorrow". Some try to sell me bananas, parsley, lettuce, and other veggies, but I want an orange.

I go nationwide, then worldwide. No oranges.

I adopt a different strategy. I call everyone again and offer $1.00 each. No results. Then I call again and offer $10 each. No results, just the same story, "I sold bushels of them yesterday, 6 for $2.00, but I'm out now, try tomorrow". Then I offer $100 ech. Same results, same story. Then $1,000 each. No luck.

I take ads in the papers looking for oranges. I'll take just one!! And I'll pay $10,000 for it. The phone rings off the hook, "I had bushels yesterday, but none today. How about some bananas instead, those I have!" I hang up vexed.

This is demand without any supply in action. That's how a price goes up.

Now, to envision how this relates to a Pyrotomic Disintegrator copper silver in mint condition, substitute that for the orange and just about every other vintage toy gun ever made for all the other veggies I was offered instead. The veggies that all the people I contacted had readily available for sale. All the "top" pieces. Like Hubley cap guns (I could have bought a dozen of them), Hiller water pistols (I had my choice of about 10 different ones), etc., etc., rinse and repeat. They all tell me how rare these Hillers and Hubleys are that they all have in stock, ready to go, but the one I want, the one that "isn't rare", they don't have. No Pyro in copper in mint condition. Anywhere. Just the like oranges. Just talk about all the bushels of them they had yesterday and sold $1600 for $2000, and how they'd sell it today for $2800, if they had one in stock, and though here I am, willing to pay $10,000 for one today, they can't find even a one, anywhere, to sell me.

So if I'm wrong, and there's plenty of them readily available for sale, right now, then show me. Point out all of them currently for sale (aside from mine).

That's how apples and oranges work as they relate to supply and demand. Plenty of apples and not even 1 orange for sale. Anywhere (except for mine).

 

[Brian..]

You lost me after "It's..."

[Pyrotomic1]

10 minutes ago, Brian.. said:

You lost me after "It's..."

Shouldn't have lost you. The text is lucid and literate. Remember, I'm the one that Professor Whoopie diagnosed as semi-literate. 

Don't tell me I'm not the only one here that can't understand basic English!

Maybe Professor Whoopie will be good enough to lend you his expertise with reading comprehension as he did me?  

[Pyrotomic1]

21 minutes ago, Brian.. said:

You lost me after "It's..."

B, the Monarch notes is that my metaphoric post replying to Andy's comment about apples and oranges is really a story about sour grapes after all. And unfortunately, though Mint Pyros in copper and silver for sale are almost a non-existent supply, now that I've listed it for sale, there's plenty of those sour grapes to go around. lol

[Martian Gil]

Dude.   - if you understand, and trust in supply and demand, let it go.

 

It's great.  It's rare. 

That's true. 

 

Market determines the value, right?   

That's also true.

 

If you want to tag it with a certain value - that's entirely your business.   

If you've set it too high, you'll get the pleasure of owning it longer.   Whatever.

From reading this little drama, one point seems lost on you - a rather significant portion of your market is on here. 

My unsolicited advice?   

Stop pissing all over your toy.   You're leaving an odor that many of these collectors will avoid.

In this corner of collecting, it's not purely about coveting and obtaining. 

 

Relationships and character are valued - right or wrong.   Fight it all you want.  The fact is that it's not sold yet.

 

"Treasure finds" are truly dynamite.   
So is owning a toy that belonged to a friend, special collector, has a special history, etc...

What history are you marking this gun with?   

 

I would hazard a guess that a rather significant portion - if not all - of your ebay watchers are also following this.

let this fizzle out.  Sell your piece of plastic.

 

Good luck & peace to you and yours.

 

 

 

 

[Pyrotomic1]

33 minutes ago, Martian Gil said:

Dude.   - if you understand, and trust in supply and demand, let it go.

 

It's great.  It's rare. 

That's true. 

 

Market determines the value, right?   

That's also true.

 

If you want to tag it with a certain value - that's entirely your business.   

If you've set it too high, you'll get the pleasure of owning it longer.   Whatever.

From reading this little drama, one point seems lost on you - a rather significant portion of your market is on here. 

My unsolicited advice?   

Stop pissing all over your toy.   You're leaving an odor that many of these collectors will avoid.

In this corner of collecting, it's not purely about coveting and obtaining. 

 

Relationships and character are valued - right or wrong.   Fight it all you want.  The fact is that it's not sold yet.

 

"Treasure finds" are truly dynamite.   
So is owning a toy that belonged to a friend, special collector, has a special history, etc...

What history are you marking this gun with?   

 

I would hazard a guess that a rather significant portion - if not all - of your ebay watchers are also following this.

let this fizzle out.  Sell your piece of plastic.

 

Good luck & peace to you and yours.

 

 

 

 

Appreciate the input.

I feel that the point that any potential buyer will gather from this thread is that for all the commentary about the toy being as common as water, and how many mint ones this one and that one have sold for a song, and despite my offering very strong prices for either another mint copper or a mint red one, that I don't have, I have not been able to find one for sale in the past 6 months, let alone buy it, though offering way more than the $2800 Rocket said he'd sell one for (but doesn't have to sell).

That's the overriding theme. What was previously (in December), a hobby grail, is now hobby garbage (since I offered it).

Forum stance is that it's of little value and nobody wants one, no market, no demand, a drastic turnaround from December. They'd sell it for a song and yet when push comes to shove, they don't have one to sell nor have they "for years".

I'm certain that theme won't escape notice from anyone who has tried to buy one in mint condition and can't because of incredibly rare supply.

So let's do this. I assume members here have an ebay account. Consensus is that the gun is worth $1600 to $2000. I'll pay $3000 right now. Today.

As I've stated before, with no takers. There's allegedly plenty of supply and no demand, no market for the piece.

I will pay $3000 today. For a mint copper and silver, or a mint red/yellow/blue.

Put it on ebay for $5000. Make offer. I'll offer $3000, you accept, I'll pay quickly, you ship. Big upside. You et rid of garbage for $3000, and I get a piece that I would like to own, call me crazy.

Takers?

 

[Pyrotomic1]

Well, two things you can't deny are:

1) no member has ever caused such angst on the forum, such an outcry of condemnation, simply by listing a toy that was, according to forum members, "rare as hen's teeth and every space gun collector's dream" and now that it's listed, it's "no big deal, no demand, no market, the toy is in the tank, the economy is in the tank, the world is ending, etc." 

2) my luck. Being able to communicate with such limited English language skills. If I owned a lucky tie, I'd think I was wearing it!